Arthur Lucas

Is there any way I can find out more about Arthur Lucas? Do not know much about him apart from a earlier thread I started on this site.

https://historyisnow.forumotion.co.uk/t59-alfred-john-coole?highlight=john+alfred+coole

Arthur is described as Alfred John Coole's son on his death certificate 1940. In 1911 Afred who is called Frederick is boarding with a family called Lucas

Amy Selina Lucas 33
George John Lucas 13
William Victor Lucas 10
Frederick Coole 40

So I gather reading between the lines that Alfred was having a fling with Amy hence Arthur. On FreeBMD have found 2 birth entries one `1915 one 1932 but Chelsea? when they were living in Camberwell.

Any suggestions how to find out more. Even if I buy a certificate doubt if the father's name would be on it.

Guess he neer married Amy because he knew he was already married een though he declared he was single.

siamese

Think we found the birth before here.

Jun 1915 Camberwell
Arthur Lucas MMN Andrews

She possibly wanted all the children to have the same surname.

We found this probable death for Amy so doesn't look like she remarried.

Deaths Mar 1923 Camberwell
LUCAS Amy S 46

You could get one or both certificates to see if any interesting info on them.

Arthur would only have been 7 when his mother died.

There's a family tree with Arthur born 27 April 1915 mothers name Andrews as we know.

Marriage 1942 Lewisham Kent to Doris G Willett.

3 children - all private 2 pink 1 blue.

Death 1985 Bromley Kent age 70.

Was the tree on ancestry? have had a look and cannot find it. Have been looking though the London Electoral registers and Arthur is living with Alfred. Also although on the 1901 and 1911 census he is called Frederick on the registers he has reverted to Alfred John Coole.

May have to order the marriage certificate to see if which father Arthur entered.

Thanks

siamese

Yes there are two trees actually but one doesn't have as much info.

I typed in Arthur Lucas born 1915 then went to family trees.  
On mine it's the 3rd and 4th result that comes up.

They seem to have lived together as a family don't they, all 3 together then father and son after mother died.

The death for Amy may well have Alfred as the informant.  Did you have to state relationship to the deceased in 1923?  
I know some of mine had no relationship given on death certificates - even when the mother was the informant - but that was much longer ago (1850's)  

I wonder why Arthur didn't want to take his fathers surname.  If it was out of respect to his mother he could have changed it after she died.

Keep us posted if you get any certificates siamese would be interested.

Thanks found it but as you say not much information.

I'll order the marriage certificate and let you know.

May be my imagination but I think Alfred knew this wife had remarried in 1919 and lived to 1939 in Shewsbury. The Coole family back in Bristol knew where Alfred lived, remember he was present at his step mother's death in 1918. So they would know what Ellen was doing and keep him informed. Whether they let Ellen know is another matter.

So he may have gone back to be called Alfred John in 1919 but up to 1939 considered himself still married so did not encouraged his son to change his surname.

Another point to consider although unlikely,Arthur may not be his son, but having a young man living with him may of got tongues wagging

siamese

Oh dear, cannot decide which certificate to order, birth or marriage. Filled in the form on GRO for birth but wandered if marriage would be better. Help please

siamese

Yes it's a tricky decision.  

What are we ideally looking to find out - confirmation that Alfred was his father?

The birth registration itself showing parents named Lucas/Andrews gives no indication Alfred will be mentioned on the certificate.
Presume she used her husbands name even though he was deceased.

So I would tentatively say the marriage for Arthur would be a better bet.  He was named as son on the death certificate 2 years earlier so I would say there's a very good chance he will be named on the certificate.

Fingers crossed!

Marriage certificate ordered. Thanks. Due for dispatch on the 5 March.

siamese

The long awaited marriage certificate arrived to day....With trembling hands I looked for the father's name and

Its Alfred John Lucas, deceased, which confirms to me that Alfred John Coole was his father. Used the surname Lucas for respectability, will at a later date order a birth certificate.

Remember the mother's husband died years before Arthur was born.

Thanks for all your help.

siamese

Ah well done siamese thanks for keeping us updated.

The birth certificate should be interesting.