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What a mess!

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1 What a mess! on Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:26 pm

A friend of a friend has a new job and has just moved house to somewhere that needs years of DIY.  Consequently, he's allowed his Ancestry sub to lapse, but asked me if I'd like to help with his tree.  Without thinking too much about it, I said yes and he's made me an Editor of his tree - which essentially means that I can do exactly what I want with it.  Oh, the power Wink

Anyway, I started to look at it over the weekend and it's all over the place:

- A man b 1837 with a mother b 1862.
- A woman b 1865 to parents who were themselves both b 1864.
- A man given a middle name without any evidence whatsoever that he had one.
- A man with a father called Edward, when on the marriage certificate (already attached to the file) it says the father's name was Thomas.
- A couple who married each other twice when there's only a record of once.
- Women with the wrong maiden name.
- Women who aren't the correct mother.
- and on and on and on.

Thankfully, it doesn't claim any connection to royalty or God - well, not that I've found so far.  

My head is spinning  No   No   No

STG

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2 Re: What a mess! on Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:24 am

Guest


Guest
Oh my goodness pale

Pity you can't go back a week and say no when he asks for your help!

Anything we can help with post away  flower

3 Re: What a mess! on Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:20 pm

you do wonder sometimes why people don't pick up on dates etc and think hey ho ... wait a minute.... something wrong here.

having said that it is something to get your teeth into.

as Tourmie says anything we can help with ask away. I have ancestry and I know other have fmp so between us we should cover most things.

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4 Re: What a mess! on Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:20 am

OK then, here goes with the first problem!  Oh, and you do realise we're doing this without the benefit of being able to buy certificates to check, don't you?  Surprised

When she married Joseph Skipper on 30 Nov 1874, Charlotte Watson gave her father's name as William and his occupation as foreman.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_195108-00497/4911495?backurl=http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/20703376/person/5131930344/facts/citation/323801236250/edit/record

On the 1881 census, she and Joseph are in Battersea with a house full of children - ah, 2mth old twins, sweet  Smile  - and a 10yo Mary J, who can't be a product of the marriage, but I'm not too bothered about her at the moment!  This gives Charlotte's age as 35 (so b. abt 1845-46) and says she was b. Nine Elms (same as on marriage cert).  Note: she has a son called Robert.  

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/LNDRG11_650_653-1086/20990038?backurl=http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/20703376/person/5131930344/facts/citation/323801237540/edit/record

I have Charlotte on all censuses from 1881 to 1911.  What I'd like to do is to find her in 1851, 1861 and 1871.

The best fit I can find for 1851 is this, where her mother is Sarah ...

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/SRYHO107_1573_1573-0806/882592?backurl=http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/20703376/person/5131930344/facts/citation/323801318577/edit/record

By 1861, Sarah has disappeared and been replaced with Mary A ...

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/SRYRG9_359_363-0187/6349723?backurl=http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/20703376/person/5131930344/facts/citation/67002298282/edit/record

However, with both of these ('51 and '61), I could be barking up the wrong tree.

I found this baptism for a Charlotte in 1847, d/o a William and Sarah, at the same time as a brother Robert .  

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/SRYRG9_359_363-0187/6349723?backurl=http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/20703376/person/5131930344/facts/citation/67002298282/edit/record

So then I set about trying to find a:
- marriage between William and Sarah
- death for Sarah
- marriage between William and Mary A

This seems like quite a good fit for the William/Mary A marriage, which shows that William was the son of a Robert ...

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_195101-00094/2406073?backurl=http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/20703376/person/5132502813/facts/citation/323801317795/edit/record

so with that in mind, I tried to find a marriage around 1842-43 between a William (s/o Robert) and a Sarah and came across this.  The problems with this are:
a) their ages.  Says "full" (i.e. 21 or over), yet if the censuses I've found are correct they would both only have been about 17/18;
b) the location.  Everything else seems to have happened in Lambeth/Battersea/Nine Elms etc, but this is Newington, so well north of the river;
c) if they were married on 24 Sep 1843, how could their son Robert (if it's the same chappie) have been b. 30 Jan 1843, and
d) in my experience the year of birth calculated for any census record is, more often than not, out by one.  For example, age 35 in 1881, gives a yob as 1846, but it's more likely to have been 1845.  Which, in this context gives Charlotte's yob as 1846, but the baptism record I found gives it as 1847, and this adds another layer of uncertainty Sad

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_197643-00206?pid=3162900&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D1623%26h%3D3162900%26tid%3D20703376%26pid%3D5132502813%26hid%3D37005189913%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DFbJ1284%26_phstart%3Ddefault%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue&treeid=20703376&personid=5132502813&hintid=37005189913&usePUB=true&_phsrc=FbJ1284&_phstart=default

Would anyone else like to have a stab at this to see what they can find, please, while I move on to a different branch of the family?

Well you did offer! Laughing

STG

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5 Re: What a mess! on Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:14 am

ok I have approached this from a different spec.

I looked at the mary j aged 10 and tried to find who she was and this comes up

1871

Name:John Taylor
Age:46
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1825
Spouse's Name:Charlotte Taylor
Where born:Oxfordshire, England
Civil Parish:Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish:Vauxhall St Peter
Registration district:Lambeth
Sub-registration district:Lambeth Church Second
ED, institution, or vessel:38
Household schedule number:7
Piece:668 Folio:68 Page Number:1

John Taylor  46
Charlotte Taylor  26 born Vauxhall surrey
Charlotte E Taylor  5 wandsworth <<<<<< before marriage
Mary Jane Taylor  5 Months vauxhall

so that is where she is 1871 
and leads on from this..

Name:Charlotte Watson
Spouse: John Taylor  
Record Type:Banns
Event Date:1 Aug 1869
Parish:St Mary, Lambeth
Borough:Lambeth
Register Type:Parish Register

still doesn't solve parentage etc .. just off to look



Last edited by vron on Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total

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6 Re: What a mess! on Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:16 am

his death??

Name:
John Taylor

Estimated Birth Year:at 1825

Registration Year:1872

Registration Quarter:Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death:47

Registration district:Lambeth
Inferred County:London

Volume:
1d

Page:
242

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7 Re: What a mess! on Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:24 am

I have been looking at same 1861 and 1851 census too.

and the same two marriages. William marriage to sarah castle gives sarah as a minor.

this would fit with this sarah castle baptism


Name:
Sarah Castle

Record Type:
Baptism

Baptism Date:
10 Jul 1825

Father's name:John Castle <<<< lime burner
Mother's name:Jane Castle

Parish or Poor Law Union:Lambeth St Mary
Borough:Lambeth

Register Type:Parish Registers

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8 Re: What a mess! on Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:51 am

got to go now and do a few things Very Happy but be back later

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9 Re: What a mess! on Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:48 am

Thanks vron.

I can see [now] that banns were called at St Mary's, Lambeth on 1, 8 and 15 Aug 1869 for Charlotte Watson and John Taylor, but I don't think that a wedding actually took place.  I've been through the marriage register for the rest of 1869 and their names don't appear.  This would chime with the 1874 marriage certificate to Joseph Skipper where she's listed as Charlotte Watson (not Taylor) and that she was a spinster.

Always nice to tie up a loose end, eh?

STG

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10 Re: What a mess! on Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:06 pm

Just found a birth certificate on Ancestry for Joseph, eldest [known] child of  Joseph and Charlotte Watson.  It says:

date and where born: 24 Nov 1873, 38 Thorn (?) St Wandsworth Road
name: Joseph
sex: boy
father's name: Joseph Skipper
mother's name : Charlotte Skipper late Taylor formerly Watson

Yay!

Well done sleuth vron!

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11 Re: What a mess! on Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:04 pm

Very Happy

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