teaser for tournie ( or anyone else)

i have the following family

william farman married honoria emma thorpe in St Pauls bristol in 1829. children

william thorpe farman 1830 bristol
Honoria emma farman (1833-1838)bristol
John Gifford Farman 03 dec 1834 - 1881 bristol
mary farman 1836 bristol
Honoria emma farman 1839 bristol
Lavinia farman 1844 bristol
Ann Farman 1845 bristol

william dies 1849 and in 1851 in the workhouse are

honoria aged 39 , honoria aged 11, lavinia 7 and ann aged 6. JOhn gifford and william thorpe had married by then and i dont know what happened to mary.

think this is them in 1841 although honoria senior age is out and there is no william.

Name: Honoria Ferman
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Gender: Female
Civil parish: Bethnal Green
Hundred: Ossulstone (Tower Division)
County/Island: Middlesex

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Church

Household Members: Name Age
Honoria Ferman 26
Wm Ferman 11
John Ferman 8
Mary Ferman 6
Howard Ferman 4 >>>>>honoria
Nk 7 Mo >>>>> not sure who this is

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 691; Book: 7; Civil Parish: Bethnal Green; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 13; Folio: 9; Page: 11; Line: 1; GSU roll: 438807.


now for the questions

1. william seniors parentage. i dont have him on any certs or census so do not have a birth year. there is on igi a william and mary ( Palmer - married in 1801) in bristol having children mary 1803, ann 1805, wiiliam 1807, mary 1809, edwin 1812,lavinia 1815, mary ellen 1817. could my wiliam been married before and these are his children - but all the names are too similar to those he gives his children from the marriage with honoria?? Cant seem to find a birth in bristol to fit?? on his sons marriage cert in 1850 he is given as deceased and a surgeon

2. Connection to Thomas Hardy ( the author) first wife emma lavinia gifford who is the daughter of john attersoll gifford and an emma farman. there is this article about her but i cant work out the connection.

http://neal.oxborrow.net/Thomas_Hardy/Emma_Gifford.htm

sorry for the long post

Cheers vron

How do you know William died in 1849? On the 1851 for Honoria it looks like married for her status.

um.. i havent put why in my records - there is a death in 1849 in Birmingham .

This is where the children can be found later and where john gifford farman married - he is my OH direct line. i thought that perhaps honoria and younger children might have been transported to gloucester workhouse as that was the area the family were from. honoria dies in birningham in 1863.

Ah right I saw the Birmingham death but didn't realise there was a connection to that area.

The Hardy connection is a real

well you did say you wanted a puzzle!!

I know I did ask

I have 3 pages of scribbles so far but whether any of them make sense is another matter

William and Mary did have a daughter Emma 1811 so I am wondering if she is the mother of the Emma born 1840 (the one that married in 1832)
1811 Emma had a sister Lavinia 1815 for her daughter to be named after.

However that doesn't yet link unless it is the same William fathering them all. I don't suppose we know how old he was when he died in 1849.

Hi Tourmie

It is a puzzle isnt it - i keep going round in circles.

been re looking at everything i have and looking around again.

and think this is my william farmans death

Name: William Farman
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 01 Apr 1849
Burial Place: St. Mary, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Age: 48
Birth Date: 1801
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B01221-7
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 814241
Reference Number: p310

which gives a birth of 1801 and rules out him being the william who married mary palmer and had the children 1803 -1817. but could he be the first child of theirs - although there isnt a baptism for him and there is for all the other chidlren.

also found this death

Name: Ellen Mary Farman
Gender: Female
Burial Date: 04 Apr 1832
Burial Place: Bristol, Gloucester, England
Age: 15
Birth Date: 1817

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B01240-3
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1595891
Reference Number: p 246 n 1962

which would seem to rule her out as being mum of emma lavinia gifford born 1840

In the piece it said Emma Lavinia was named after her mother and an aunt who died in childhood. I am thinking Emma after the Emma born 1811 (of William & Mary) and Lavinia as the sister born 1815.

There's a William brother in 1807 so unlikely there was another William born 1801 who survived.

However as you have date for your William of 1801 he should be somewhere on the 1841 census wherever he was born.