Registration required

I'm now having difficulty with this family. Present on all the census but cannot find a birth or marriage registration.

Jonathan Ford born 1865 Pontypool, Monmouthshire, Wales. Parents John and Mary Ford. According to the 1911 census Jonathan married about 1891. His wife is called Sarah Ann.

Any help would be appreciated.

siamese

Name:FORD, Jonathan
Registration district:Pontypool
County:Monmouthshire
Year of registration:1890
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-dec
Volume no:11A
Page no:296


also listed
JAMES, Sarah Ann

Marriage Record

Grooms Last Name:Ford
Grooms First Name:Jonathan
Grooms Fathers First Name:John
Grooms Fathers Last Name:Ford
Grooms Age:26

Brides Last Name:James
Brides First Name:Sarah Ann
Brides Fathers First Name:Jeremiah
Brides Fathers Last Name:Buck
Brides Age:26

County:Monmouthshire
Place / Parish:Llanhiledd

Marriage Year:1890
Marriage Month:Dec
Marriage Day:25
Page:149

Record source:Monmouthshire Marriages - Transcripts
Data provider:Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

Thanks Vron, Could not find the entries on FreeBMD.

siamese

Birth is certainly elusive isn't it

He wasn't born before wedlock or anything strange was he?

His mother was called Griffiths. Although not proved the marriage was in 1854 but the first born Thomas was not born until 1861????
1854
Age: 23
Marriage to Mary Ann Giffiths
Bristol Gloucestershire
March Clifton 6a 246

Hmmmm he's plain John on his first census 1871 - have you got the parents in 1861 just out of interest?

Could be they had earlier children before 1861 that died

I can't see the birth for Thomas in Pontypool either oh dear. Is Pontypool the Welsh Bermuda triangle

Mary Ford is only 40 in 1881 so if she married in 1854 as Mary Ann Griffiths she was on the young side to say the least!

Maybe I am getting mixed up with Fords or they married later? John Ford is a lot older 13/18 years on 1871/1881 - had he been married before perhaps and had children. Even if he did they would still be called Ford so

Think I need to do a bit more research, I'll start with the parents.

According to the 1871 census, Mary Ford (nee Whatever) is 30yo, and has a 10yo son, Thomas.

So if she was married in 1854, she'd have only been 14 when she married.

Doesn't sound quite right, somehow.

STG

1851 census

d Census about Wm Ford
Name: Wm Ford
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: St George, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Bristol St George
Ecclesiastical parish: St George

View image
Registration district: Clifton
Sub-registration district: Ashley
ED, institution, or vessel: 1i
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 120
Piece: 1953
Folio: 458
Page Number: 33
Household Members:
Name Age
Wm Ford 36
Louisa Ford 30
Orlando Ford 24
Rebecca Ford 21
John Ford 19
William Ford 17
Maryann Ford 15
Frederick Ford 13
Emily Ford 11

So maybe I need to drop the Edward? what a pity registration did not start before 1837

Wander if he married Sarah?

Marriages Mar 1854 (>99%)
Bunce Sarah Christian Clifton 6a 246
Ford John Clifton 6a 246
GRIFFITHS David Clifton 6a 246
GRIFFITHS Mary Clifton 6a 246

What about this entry for 1861

Name: John Ford
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Ford
Gender: Male
Where born: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Civil Parish or Township: Cardiff St John
Town: Cardiff
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 238
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4032
Folio: 26
Page Number: 45
Household Members:
Name Age
John Ford 25
Sarah Ford 21
John Ford 6/12

CAN I assume this is his death - confirming birth age

Name:FORD, Jonathan
Registration district:Pontypool
County:Monmouthshire
Year of registration:1944
Quarter of registration:Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death:79
Volume no:11A
Page no:113

Yes, Von, looks like it. I am not sure if I now have the correct marriage for John Ford, if so he would not be Jonathan's father. When I can afford it I'll order a marriage certificate.

Thanks

siamese

There's a Jonathan Davies, b. Q4 1864 in Pontypool. He's about the nearest I can get, but then I can't find a marriage of a John Ford to a Mrs Griffiths in the appropriate timeframe (i.e. between Jonathan's birth and John and Mary appearing as man and wife on the 1971 census).


STG

It has been awhile since I've done any research on this family, just wish I had documented where I found the name John Edward Ford from.

Here's a theory to start the day.

I can't find births in Pontypool for any of the children on the census Thomas 1861, Jonathan 1865, James 1867, John 1872. Possible for Alfred Dec 1876.

So the theory is John had been married before and he and the much younger Mary were not married and the births were registered under her surname?
On the census they were all lumped together under Ford for conformity.

Also with Jonathan on the first census he appears he is plain John. He may have used Jonathan later to differentiate from his pappa and be registered under John.

There's a marriage in Q4 1859 in Clifton (6a, 250) between a John Ford and a Sarah Winters.

There's a birth in Q4 1860 in Bristol (6a, 17) of a John Ford, so that's quite a likely candidate for the 6mth old John on the 1861 census.

So, far haven't been able to find a likely death though for a Sarah Ford between 1861 and 1871.

STG

I think the whole Ford family have foxed me. Regarding you idea about John and Mary not getting married its quite possible as shortly in the 1860's (if its the correct John) went to live and work in Pontypool.

John's nephew Frederick Francis Ford married my Grandfather's cousin Lillie Blakeney (have marriage certificate) so John is quite distant.

Another idea

Could John have married Sarah in 1859, had son John in 1860, than left her for Mary? Personally I think the John who married Mary Griffith in 1854 is a different John to my John.

There are several marriages for John Ford on FreeBMD
1846...John Ford---Maria Curtis/Mary Ann Keef/Hannah Milsom/Julia Ann Wheller
1846...John Ford---Caroline Haste/Frances Saunders/Hannah Witchell/Caroline Withey
1852...John Ford---Hannah Lovell/Mary Powell
1853...John Ford---Hannah Lewis/Sidonna Liles
1854...John Ford---Sarah Christian Bunce/Mary Griffiths*
1854...John Ford---Hannah Mack/Susanna Wait
1856...John Ford---Sarah Deare/Rebecca Norley
1859...John Ford---Esther Ann Hurn/Harriet James/Sarah Winter*

He could of married any of the brides so unless I obtain a certificate I am not really going to know.

I have deleted Mary Griffith and children, and starting from scratch, mybe one of his siblings may draw some light.

By the way the whole family where into market gardening by occupation.

Thanks for all your help.

siamese

Yes I tend to agree with you siamese that the 1854 marriage is a red herring.

The "bride" has to be called Mary tho doesn't she because the kids are consistant on the census throughout and his "wife" their mother is always called Mary not Sarah or anything else!
However if that Mary and those kids are being deleted very good idea to start from scratch with another sibling.

Market gardening is a good clue