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A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma

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1 A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:40 am

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My dear husbands family name is Parsons-Hann.  
Several years ago I thought I had found the origin of this via his great great grandfather Henry Parsons Hann baptised Holnest Dorset 22 August 1847.  Parents Charles and Charlotte.  I found a marriage between a Charles Hann and Charlotte Parsons (Wincanton Mar 1845) and thought voila mystery solved.

However looking at family trees on Ancestry there are several with Henry Parsons Hann 1845-1881 but they all have his mother as Charlotte Martin Shocked

Now there is another Charles Hann/Charlotte marriage (Shaftesbury Dec 1844) and she is indeed Charlotte Martin - this marriage is on Ancestry.

To resolve which Charlotte is correct I thought I would send for his birth - but there are no births with a Parsons in the middle.  
As a daughter Emily Ellen with same parents names was baptised at the same time as Henry I looked for her birth which was registered Sherborne.  I found a Henry Hann in Sherborne Dec 1845 (no age given on the baptism in 1847) so have sent for that one hoping his mother will be Charlotte Parsons.

Would very much value opinions on this as I think I am on the right track but if so how come all the trees are wrong not just one or two?  

And if you aren't exhausted after reading all that Henry's father Charles could be one of two people - both Charles Hann both baptised Holnest in 1817!!  One with parents Isaac and Elizabeth and the other with parents John and Phebe.  But one problem at a time eh scratch

2 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:07 pm

Double-barrelled.  Posh, eh? Very Happy

Or maybe not.   I have a friend with a married DB name and I did some FH for her.  Turns out that an ancestor had an illegitimate child and called him something like (I've made the names up)

Given names: John Percy Wood
Surname : Smith

where I suspect that John/Percy Wood was the child's father, although not named on John's birth certificate.

John's son, David, took it upon himself to style himself as David Wood-Smith, and that's how the family remained known until the present day.

Anyway, back to the Parson-Hanns ....

Firstly, all those trees could be wrong simply because they've copied from each other.

Secondly, can you give us a link to a census where you're certain that you've got the right family so that we can see where we get to if we try to work backwards.

Hope this makes sense Smile

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3 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:38 pm

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Definitely not posh - farm servants and labourers Sad

This is Henry in 1871

Henry Hann 26 born Holnest
Patience Hann 24 born Haydon (Dorset)
Charles James Hann 1 born Haydon

1881 Henry has died in the February

Patience Hann 34
Charles Hann 12
Elizabeth Hann 9
George Hann 8
Arthur Hann 4
Henry Hann

1891 the P is creeping in

Patience P Hann 42
George P Hann 18
Arthur P Hann 16
Rosa P Hann 13
Henry P Hann 11




4 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:46 pm

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More helpfully going backwards

I think this is the right Charles/Charlotte/Henry combo but as I say there is another combo around that end up in Wiltshire just to confuse things.

1861

Charles Hann  44 born Holnest
Charlotte Hann  39 born Milborne Port Somerset
Henry Hann  17
Emily Hann  15
Henrietta Hann  12

1851

Charles Hann  33
Charlote Hann  28
Henery Hann  6
Emly Hann  4
Henryetta Hann  1

5 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:11 pm

Personally I think you could be on the right lines. I know there can be a lot of trees on ancestry with the same parents but they can easily be copied from each other or from people closely related who are all putting in the same info from a wrong source. I suspect that since the charlotte martin marriage is on ancestry when the other marriage isn’t and therefore harder to find that they have just assumed as they can only see the one.

Obviously when you do have the correct marriage you can get that certificate which would give Charles fathers name . however in the meantime there is this
Charles Hann
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 24 Jun 1857
Event Place: Holnest, Holnest, Dorset, England
Age: 40
Marital Status: Single
Birth Year (Estimated): 1817
Father's Name: Isaac Hann
Spouse's Name: Hannah Burt
Spouse's Age: 30
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated): 1827
Which might refer to the Charles son of Isaac marriage

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6 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:43 am

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Thanks vron that's encouraging Smile

Makes sense for people to pounce on the marriage that is online as you say. Feel more confident now.

Will let you know when certificates arrive.

Charles and Hannah marriage 1857 and he was son of Isaac that's useful to know thanks for that.

7 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:05 pm

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Ok certificates arrived this morning but not quite what the doctor ordered  pale

Marriage
10 March 1845
Charles Hann full age bachelor labourer add Brook St Milborne Port
NO fathers name listed nothing in the box at all not even a line

Charlotte Parsons full age spinster add Brook St Milborne Port
father looks like Susannah but could be Samuel Parsons labourer

Witnesses John Hann & Mary Hann - all parties mark with an X

Birth
14 October 1845 Holnest
Henry boy - mother Jane Hann Holnest
NO fathers name listed

So.....help!  All I can think at present is Charles & Charlotte "adopted" Henry and took him on as one of their own.  Was Jane a sister of Charles?
That could explain why he is baptised in 1847 along with a daughter of their own but generous to give him the Parsons name if he was nothing to do with Charlotte.

Course I could have the wrong birth and there is another legitimate Henry one lurking about but that seemed the most likely.

Thoughts appreciated sunny

8 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:27 pm

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Added found this baptism

Name:
Henry James John Hann

Baptism Date:
12 Jul 1846

Baptism Place:
Holnest, Dorset, England

Mother:
Jane Hann

Don't suppose that could be the same Henry could it Question

Could the same person be baptised twice if new parents took him on.
It's all going a bit pear shaped Basketball

9 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:01 am

ok - well starting with the marriage - it looks like Charles that married charlotte Parsons is illegitimate. charlottes father is given so think Charles would have been if he had/knew one.

the baptism you found with mother jane does seem to go with the birth cert you ordered but I think your henry is a different person and he has a different baptism.

I would be tempted to send for sister Emily's birth certificate . I know it doesn't solve the riddle around henry's birth necessarily but it would tell you the name of Charles wife charlottes maiden name and solve that bit of the puzzle and may lead to clues about Henry - eg if he is a relation.

I will go and have a look round at records now and see if I can see anything interesting

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10 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:19 am

when henry parsons  married patricia what info did he put about his father.

ok I see when heneritte married she put Charles but no details of occupation/address etc

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11 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:55 pm

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Thanks vron.

When Henry marries his father is down as Charles Hann labourer.
Marriage in Haydon Dorset where Patience came from.

I was checking the census again this morning and noticed that in 1851 he and Emily are born Milborne Port not Holnest although Holnest appears as birthplace on later census.

As this is where Charlotte came from I wonder if the family moved to Holnest a few years after they married.

I did find a birth for Henry Parsons right area 1844 so before the marriage but even if I sent for that certificate it would at best case scenario give Charlotte Parsons mother and nothing else.

Sending for Emily birth is a good suggestion - if I can find the right one now I know the area is different.

12 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:48 pm

i did notice the birthplace of emily and henry from the 1851 census and thought that they prob moved to holnest at an early age so would put that as birthplace in later census etc.

i think even if the birth cert of henry did just give charlotte parsons as mother there is a good chance that charles hann might be father anyway.

not having much luck finding anything else other than what you have already found

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13 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:52 am

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Had another thought.  If I take a chance on the Henry Parsons birth and his mother is Charlotte then it might also have the same address as on the marriage for Charlotte and Charles which was Brook Street.

The marriage was less than a year after his birth so hopefully she was living at home and the addresses will be the same and bingo  cheers

Here's hoping!  I'll do a sister as well just to confirm her maiden name.
Henrietta looks easier to find than Emily but then again Emily had same birthplace as Henry so maybe hers would be more advantageous?
Depends where they were living, they may have had a home of their own and not be in Brook Street once married.  

sunny

14 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:26 am

ok dont know why i didnt think of this before but looked for charlotte parsons in 1841 and lo behold i found a charlotte parsons living with dad Samuel  in BROOK STREET milbourne  and she is a gloveress.


Samuel Parsons Male 40 1801 Somerset, England
Maria Parsons Female 40 1801 Somerset, England
Charlote Parsons Female 10 1831 Somerset, England
Elizabeth Parsons Female 15 1826 Somerset, England
Sarah Parsons Female 10 1831 Somerset, England
Aurthur Parsons Male 7 1834 Somerset, England
Ann Parsons Female 5 1836 Somerset, England
George Parsons Male 0 1841 Somerset, England
Elizabeth Ansty Female 75 1766 -

i know the age is out but she is listed first as if she is the oldest and on the image it looks like the age has been altered

dont know if you have seen this

of course it doesnt prove henry parsons hann belongs to this couple

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15 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:34 am

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Excellent so that must be the Charlotte on the marriage certificate Basketball

She was of full age on the marriage.  Let me check later census for her.

16 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:39 am

the last digit of the image has been altered to ) but i think it was a 6 or 7 making her born 1823 ish which fits with later census ages. she also is a gloveress which is what she is when married to charles too

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17 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:42 am

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In 1851 she's 28 so maybe it should have been 18 not 10 in 1841.
That would put her over 21 in 1845.

1861 she's 39

1871 she's 47

18 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:45 am

if this is right charlotte then samuel married maria ansty in dec 1821

though still need to prove henry belongs to charlotte parsons etc

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19 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:51 am

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Brook St is the key. If that add is on the birth for Henry Parsons then I think it's as good as it's going to get!

Still worries me that Charles puts no father on the marriage. There don't seem to be any loose Charles Hann's running about - having two born the same year with different parents is enough without having a third without any parents at all pale

20 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:52 am

yes need to find henrys birth so can pin that down to charlotte ( and prob Charles)

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21 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:01 am

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Will post when certificate(s) arrive.

I wonder if there is a loose Charles about in 1841? Worth a look. He might be in the same area as Charlotte wooing her.

22 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:24 pm

Oh, I haven't been any help at all have it? Embarassed

Sorry about that.  My mind has been elsewhere ...  Rolling Eyes

STG

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23 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:50 pm

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You can help me with Charles once we've got Henry sorted Basketball

24 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:37 pm

Tourmie wrote:You can help me with Charles once we've got Henry sorted Basketball

Yes, Ma'am!  Cool

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25 Re: A Double Barrelled Dorset Dilemma on Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:47 am

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You are cordially invited to the opening of two envelopes.....drum roll please.......

First one

22 Aug 1849 Holnest
Henrietta girl
father Charles Hann labourer
mother Charlotte Hann formerly Parsons (yess cheers )

Second one - this is the biggie

5 July 1844 Milborne Port
Henry boy
no father listed
mother Charlotte Parsons

pity it doesn't say Brook St to absolutely clinch it but I think that's as good as it's going to get.

So family lore was correct and the first Parsons-Hann really was illegitimate despite my well intentioned efforts to prove otherwise.

That's assuming Charles Hann was the father of course, it may be Parsons something else but let's not go there pale

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