A Bit Bemused by the Brentnalls

the death in 1985 was the one i was looking at too

Name: LEIVERS, Harold
Registration district: [?] Mansfield
County: Nottinghamshire
Year of registration: 1985
Month of registration: October
Date of Birth:10 June 1905

Volume no: 8
Page no: 441
Reg no: 1085

birth?
Name: LEIVERS, Harold
Registration district: Mansfield
County: Nottinghamshire
Year of registration: 1905
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume no: 7B
Page no:100

there is this baptism - unfortuantely no image or mothers name etc

Year:1907
Relationship:
Forenames:Harry
Surname:Leivers
SubDistrict:Alfreton
County:Derbyshire
Country:England
Register Office:Amber Valley (Ripley)
Reference:AB/68/071

Record source:Derbyshire Registrars Birth Index

another baptism
Year:1885
Relationship:
Forenames:Mary Elizabeth
Surname:Leivers
SubDistrict:Blackwell
County:Derbyshire
Country:England
Register Office:Chesterfield
Reference:BWB/23/301

Record source:Derbyshire Registrars Birth Index

1901 census transcription details for: Race Course Farm, Mansfield

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13 Piece: 3140 Folio: 166 Page: 24


Reg. District: Mansfield Sub District: Mansfield
Parish: Mansfield Enum. District: 6
Ecclesiastical District: St Peters City/Municipal Borough:

Address: Race Course Farm, Mansfield
County: Nottinghamshire

SHACKLOCK, Matthew H Head Married M 49 1852 Farmer Mansfield Nottinghamshire

SHACKLOCK, Maria Wife Married F 53 1848 Ashover Derbyshire

SHACKLOCK, Helen Daughter Single F 24 1877 Mansfield Nottinghamshire

SHACKLOCK, Ada Daughter Single F 22 1879 Mansfield Nottinghamshire

SHACKLOCK, Matthew Son Single M 21 1880 Mansfield Nottinghamshire

SHACKLOCK, Katherine Daughter Single F 18 1883 Mansfield Woodhouse Nottinghamshire

REEVES, Joseph Servant Single M 24 1877 Agricultural Labourer
Aston Eyres Salop

Leivers Mary E Servant Single F 15 1886 Housemaid (Domestic) Pinxton Derbyshire

Oh thanks vron, this is shaping up nicely.

Now. Just to find her in 1911 ....


STG

Can't see it on ancestry but on the free 1911 census seach there's a Mary Leivers age 25 born 1886 living Belper Derbyshire.

HOUSEHOLD
LEIVERS
MARY
F
1886
25
Belper
Derbyshire

You may have already ruled this one out but best to post just in case.
I can't see any other details but hopefully someone else will be able to check it out if necessary.

Hi Tourmie

Thanks for that. I've been out since first thing, so not had chance to look before now.

I've just tried on Ancestry too, but it doesn't seem to want to appear. I don't think I ruled it out, but then I've looked at so many Mary Leivers (various spellings etc) that I can't remember them all.

Maybe there's someone with FMP who could look? Vron, perhaps?

STG

I've splashed out on some credits and used 10 to look at the transcript of the 1911 one in Belper.

Living with Joseph Fletcher, 73 and his wife Mary, 70. He's a retired Innkeeper, there's no occupation for Mary, and all three of them are said to have been born in Alfreton. Address on the census is Prospect View, Nottingham Road, Alfreton.

Derbyshire, Alfreton, Enumeration District 3, SN 95.

I've tried to find it on Ancestry by searching on both Joseph and Mary's details, but it doesn't seem to want to come up that way. Must be completely mis-indexed or something. Anyway, I found it using the County, Parish, En.Dist and SN that I got from the 1911 site.

Must be her, eh?

STG

Oh well done for having a look. No occupation for her hmmmm I was thinking she would be a servant or something. No relationship either I suppose hmmmm if you think the area fits then could well be her.

Don't suppose her mothers maiden name was Fletcher to make it easy

Pity there's no occupation, but a 73yo retired innkeeper and his 70yo wife would be likely to have live-in help, wouldn't they, especially as it says they've been married for 28 years and have no children (none born). And it puts her firmly in Alfreton where she marries Alfred Brentnall a year later.

> mother's maiden name.

Ah, therein lies another problem. In 1901 she's in Kirby-in-Ashfield, Notts 1901 with her parents:
Walter, 44, coal miner, b. Selston, Notts
Ann, 37, b. Pinxton, Derbys
Henry, 9, b. Pinxton
Arthur, 7, b. Pinxton
Maggie, 4, b. Pinxton

which sounds all fine and dandy, except that I can only find one marriage for a Walter Leivers, and that's to an Annie Caunt and it's in Skegby-by-Mansfield, with the bride coming from Skegby (info from IGI). Skegby is west of Mansfield; Pinxton is east. So, is "Ann from Pinxton" the same as "Annie from Skegby"? Somehow I don't think so.

There's a tree on Ancestry that has Walter marrying Annie Caunt and having:
Mary Ann, b. 1877 Skegby
John G, b. 1881 Lenton (Notts)
Mabel, b. 1888 Arnold (Notts)

and then with an unknown spouse having Mary Elizabeth, but no other siblings with that wife.

They also have Walter dying in 1896, but he can't have if he's the same Walter who's with his family in 1901 in Kirby-in-Ashfield, can he? But I've looked for a death of a Walter after 1901 and there's nothing suitable (for an approx b. in 1848). Ho hum.

I've sent the tree owners a PM just now and will see what sort of response I get.

STG

i dont think mary elisabeth is the daughter of walter and ann

in 1901 walter and ann and five children including mary ann born skegby are at home in nottingham

whilst we also have another 1901 census where a mary e born pinxton is a servant with the shacklock family.

also we have another 1901 census where widow ann is with children harry, arthur and maggie all born pinxton derbyshire

i really think this is one case where you need the marraige cert to get her fathers name and occupation etc.

vron wrote:
also we have another 1901 census where widow ann is with children harry, arthur and maggie all born pinxton derbyshire

Oh, can you give me details of that one, so that I can try to find it on Ancestry, pls? It's not coming up.

STG

interestingly i have just found this - but who knows where it fits in - too early for you brentnall-leivers union

Name: LEIVERS, Henry Brentnall
Registration district: Belper
County: Derbyshire
Year of registration: 1875
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at death:0
Volume no: 7B
Page no: 423


1901

LEIVERS, Ann Head Widow F 46 1855
Pinxton Derbyshire
LEIVERS, Harry Son Single M 19 1882 Coal Miner Ganger
Pinxton Derbyshire
LEIVERS, Arthur Son Single M 17 1884 Coal Miner Ganger
Pinxton Derbyshire
LEIVERS, Maggie Daughter F 14 1887
Pinxton Derbyshire

Piece:3145 Folio: 129 Page:19
Registration District:Basford

Civil Parish:Selston Address:Common Side Station Road, Selston
County:Nottinghamshire

Found it now. Thanks.

But, if you go back 10 years to 1891, Ann is living with the children and husband ..... WALTER b. Selston, Notts abt 1847. And that age for Walter would tie in with the death of a Walter Leivers in 1896 in Basford (Notts/Derby border) reg district, age 49.

Back a further 10 years to 1881 and Ann is Annie, b. abt 1857 Skegby.

Arghh!

I've had a reply from the other Ancestry Tree - essentially saying that they think there are two Walters both of whom married an Ann/Annie, and they're just as confused as I am.

I started this thread in RootsChat last evening

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,588392.0.html

and the PM referred to in the last post says:

Thought I would do this via pm in case anyone grumbles re copyright transcriptions etc.

None of Walter & Ann's children were baptised at Pinxton.

Marriage at Kirkby in Ashfield
MOSES GIBSON & ELEANOR ELLIOTT - 24th April 1848

From FMP - Derbyshire Registrars Index - have Moses 2nd marriage in 1853 to Mary Elliott at Mansfield Register Office

Burials at Pinxton
Eleanor Gibson - 24th February 1853, aged 22yrs - abode Pinxton Green
Moses Gibson - 29th March 1898 - aged 73yrs - abode Pinxton

There are other Gibson burials.... not sure which or if any of the Marys' are Moses 2nd wife.

There are about eleven Leivers buried at Pinxton..... no Walter.
ANN LEIVERS - 27th January 1915 - aged 60 yrs - abode Wharf Road.

Lots of Gibson's at Pinxton, I can't see Ann's baptism; there is just one of Moses & Eleanor's at Kirkby in Ashfield - Joseph Gibson - 10th Oct 1848 - fathers occupation Collier

A couple of interesting baptisms at Pinxton......

MOSES GIBSON - 9th June 1833 - parents John & Mary - abode Sleights Row - occupation Collier. note: The child was 5yrs old last 25th November.
~ ~ ~
MOSES GIBSON - born 4th Aug 1861 - baptism 20th Feb 1862 - parents Moses & Mary, abode Kirkby, Collier. note: Private baptism - sister of husbands 1st wife.


There are a number of other Gibson's and the other Leivers burials, if you need to know anything else just let me know.



So, what do we think are the odds that Mary Elizabeth's mother is Ann(ie) Gibson?

I know the birth certificate would help, and I might end up getting it, but in the meantime .....

STG

Is this the marriage to Annie Gibson?

Marriages Sep 1881 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUTLER John Belper 7b 803
GIBSON Annie Belper 7b 803
KIRK Naomi Harriet Belper 7b 803
LEVERS Walter Belper 7b 803

Yes, that's what is being suggested. Duffield village comes into Belper registration district.

STG

Births Jun 1854 (>99%)

GIBSON Ann Basford 7b 87

Ann GIBSON Pedigree
Female

Event(s):
Birth: 1854 Kirkby, , Nottingham, England

Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: Moses GIBSON Family
Mother: Mary GIBSON

This Ann Gibson is with her parents Moses and Mary up to and including 1881 where they are living in Pinxton.

i agree - we have two families on the 1901 census.

the latter one from pinxton seems to have baptised the children

LEIVERS Arthur 1883 Blackwell Derbyshire
LEIVERS Harold 1905 Blackwell Derbyshire <<<<< half brother harry???
LEIVERS Henry 1881 Blackwell Derbyshire
LEIVERS Maggie 1886 Blackwell Derbyshire
LEIVERS Mary Elizabeth 1885 Blackwell Derbyshire
LEIVERS Sarah Annie 1885 Blackwell Derbyshire


only one of the baptisms appear on igi in full

Name: Sarah Annie Leivers
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 03 Oct 1886
Baptism/Christening Place: UNITED METHODIST FREE CHURCH, PINXTON, DERBYSHIRE,
Father's Name: Walter Leivers
Mother's Name: Ann
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C13748-2
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 1041618 IT 13
Collection: England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

So, Sarah Annie, bapt. 1886 could be one of the two children of Walter and Ann who died. [1911 census = 6 children born, 4 alive, 2 dead].

I went out about 12noon and I'm sure I posted that I was going out and would be back this evening, but the message didn't appear, so apols if you thought I was ignoring you.

What troubles me a bit though is that Duffield is abt 15 miles away from Pinxton. So, if Ann(ie) Gibson is living in Pinxton at census time (March) in 1881, why go all the way to Duffield to get wed?

Am still trying to find Walter in 1881.

STG