Hannah Harlow b. abt 1886 in Derby

I'm helping a friend with his tree and am a bit stuck and wondered if anyone could help, please?

Working backwards:

Samuel Robinson (b. 1883 Derby, d. 1960 Derby) married Hannah Garratt/Garrett (b. 1885 Nottingham, d. 1959 Derby).

Hannah was the daughter of Samuel Garratt/Garrett (b. 1861 Derby, d. 1908 Derby) and Hannah Somebody (b. 1886 Derby, d. uknown). I found a marriage for a Samuel Garratt/Garrett and a Hannah Harlow in Derby in 1883, which seems to fit with Hannah jnr arriving in 1885, then Harry in 1887 and Samuel in 1889.

Then I started looking back for census records in 1871 and 1881 for Hannah Harlow and this came up for 1871.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=DBYRG10_3569_3573-0420&fn=Hannah&ln=Harlow&st=r&ssrc=gr_t44380912_p6200702177_ktidz0q3d44380912z0q26pidz0q3d6200702177z0q26hidz0q3d60122877707z0q26dbidz0q3d7619z0q26rpidz0q3d9430607z0q26ssrcz0q3dgrz0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q252c32782z0q26pgPLz0q3dpidz0q252ctidz0q257cpidz0q257chidz0q257cdbidz0q257crpidz0q257cssrcz0q26pgPSz0q3d6200702177_h60122877707&pid=9430607

A couple of people on Ancestry have Catherine Corbett as Hannah's mother, but I'm not so sure. I think it could well be the person-but-one above Hannah. Ancestry has her transcribed as "Elmo" and the other daughter underneath as "Mano", but neither seem particulary likely to be accurate.

So, asking for (1) opinions as to Hannah Harlow's mother; (2) if it's "Elmo", what's her more likely first name; (3) what's "Mano"'s name; (4) possible father of the girls/husband of "Elmo"; (5) anything else we can work out for the Harlows, please.

Ancestry is also throwing up an 1881 hint, but someone has annotated that Hannah Harlow as being Hannah Wall. That family are in Derby too though.

Hope this makes sense.

STG

Just a quick visit as cooking dinner but Elmo and Mano

Quick look for Harlow marriages Derbyshire to tie in with birth of Mano and all the brides seem to be Elizabeths.

Birth in 1858 Derby for Mano = Mary Ann. I can see Mano looks like M Ann but Elmo isn't quite Elizabeth - some local shortened version perhaps

Oops oven is pipping back later!

I would say Elmo is the mother of Hannah and Mary Ann. However Elmo can't be the daughter of Catherine as they are only 5 years apart.

Ooh how about Emma for Elmo? It isn't long enough to be Elizabeth and varients for Elizabeth tend to be different like Betty or Lizzie.

sorry what was the date of birth for hannah somebody

"Hannah was the daughter of Samuel Garratt/Garrett (b. 1861 Derby, d. 1908 Derby) and Hannah Somebody (b. 1886 Derby, d. uknown). I found a marriage for a Samuel Garratt/Garrett and a Hannah Harlow in Derby in 1883,

a birth of 1886 and a marriage of 1883 dont add up. i cnt see the ancestry link as i am not a member

ok found 1891 census and i can see she is born 1866 all saints derbyshire

Hi vron

The ancestry link has the following people.

Catherine Corbett 37
Goana " 12
William " 8
Ellen " 6
Rebecca " 4
Elmo Harlow 32
Mano " 13
Hannah " 5

Everyone is down as son/daughter of Catherine. I was wondering if Catherine and Elmo were sisters but C born Ireland. I did however find a marriage of Catherine Greatorex to Michael Corbett 1857 and a birth for Emma Greatorex in 1839 but all this is a leap in the dark and I believe Greatorex is a local name anyway.

assume you have this

Name:Samuel Garratt
Baptism/Christening Date:27 Mar 1889
Baptism/Christening Place:Christ Church, Derby, Derbyshire,
Birth Date:20 Feb 1889
Father's Name:Samuel Garratt
Father's Birthplace:Of 6 Pleasant Pl., Stockbrook Street

Mother's Name:Hannah Garratt
Mother's Birthplace:Of 6 Pleasant Pl., Stockbrook Street

Indexing Project (Batch) Number:C02173-0
System Origin:England-EASy
Source Film Number:2081967
Reference Number:v 2 p 163

Ok the 1881 is interesting and could be where the Wall comes in.

James Wall 50
Ann Wall 44
Mary A Ainsworth 23 - is this Mano 13 from 1871 married?
Edith A " granddaughter
Hannah Harlow 15
Henry " 9
Sarah " 7

I wonder if Ann Harlow married James Wall * If so Elmo should be Ann

* Yes James Wall/Ann Harlow married 1876.

And George Ainsworth/Mary Ann Harlow married 1877.

I think we're getting somewhere - what was the original question again

ther is this 1881 census in all saints which is where hannah gives her birthplace in 1891

Name: Hannah Harlow
Age: 15
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1866
Birthplace: , Derbyshire, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Marital Condition: Single
Profession/Occupation: Silk Mill Hand
Address: West Side Court 7 3 Bold Lane
Census Place: All Saints, Derbyshire, England
Record Type: Household
Family History Library Film: 1341815
The National Archives Reference: RG11
Piece/Folio: 3407 / 28
Page Number: 20
Collection: England and Wales Census, 1881

rest of family

Head James WallM 50, Derbyshire, England
Wife Ann Wall F 44 , Derbyshire, England
Daughter Mary A Ainsworth F 23, Derbyshire, England
Grand Daughter Edith A Ainsworth F 0 Derbyshire, England
Daughter Hannah Harlow F 15 , Derbyshire, England
Son Henry Harlow M 9 Derbyshire, England
Daughter Sarah Harlow F 7, Derbyshire, England

1861 has an Ann Harlow 22 and a Mary Ann Harlow 3 which ties in with the 1871 Elmo and Mano however Harlow is birth name not married name for Ann soooooooo she can't be widowed under Harlow in 1871 (unless she has simply reverted to her birth name)

I'm not sure she married at all you know (until Mr Wall)
There is a birth for Ann Harlow 1839 Derby that fits her.

Anyway off out for a bit now so will stop rambling and catch you later

Sorry folks, only just come back in.

So, in summary:

1. Hannah's mother was Ann.
2. Ann (aka "Elmo" was a single parent of two daughters.
3. First daughter, Mary Ann (aka "Mano"), married George Ainsworth and they had a daughter Edith A Ainsworth.
4. Ann married James Wall in 1876.
5. Ann's parents were David and Mary Harlow.

STG

PS : Sorry for the wrong date in the OP. Should have been b.1866 not 1886, of course.

PPS : Vron, if you have FMP, what is Elmo transcribed as there, please?

in the 1871 they have her as elns.
and m ann as the daughter

couple of questions --if ann harlow married Mr wall in 1876 then whose children are henry 9 and sarah 7 harlow from the 1881 census.

has anyone tried tracing them through census and marriage etc

vron wrote:in the 1871 they have her as elns.
and m ann as the daughter

couple of questions --if ann harlow married Mr wall in 1876 then whose children are henry 9 and sarah 7 harlow from the 1881 census.

has anyone tried tracing them through census and marriage etc

Good questions!

At the moment, I've got no idea.

Four illegitimate children is going some, isn't it? And then to find someone willing to marry her?

Will think on, but all suggestions welcome!

STG

just cooking dinner so will look again later

Yes I wondered where those other 2 youngsters came from as well!

There are some very strange names on the 1871 census page not just Elmo and Mano.
You can make Elmo into Enn - the double nn which would be in Ann.

Maybe the fact she is down as a widow was to save face.

Just to add to Ann on prev census.

1841

David Harlow 35
Mary 30
Edwin 14
Charles 8
Thomas 6
Ann 2
William 3 months
John 20

David and John are bricklayers. Mary is Mary Ward married 1826.

1851

John Harlow 83 father
David 49
Mary 44
Thomas 15
Charles 18
William 10
George 9
John 5
Ann 11
Emma 2
Hannah 6 granddaughter of someone

Ann is a silk spinner. Older boys/men are bricklayers.

Hi

Have been working my way through this info and trying to locate the various censuses. Can't seem to find David Harlow in 1871, yet he didn't die until 1873, so he should be around somewhere.

Am still pondering Ann having four children without marrying any of the fathers. There's an 8yr gap between Mary Ann and Hannah, which suggests two different fathers to me, then a 6yr gap between Hannah and Henry, which suggests a third father, but only a 2yr gap between Henry and Sarah, so perhaps they do share a father, but he obviously didn't stick around because by the time Sarah is 2yrs old, Ann is married to Mr Wall!

Thanks for the help so far.



STG

Hi STG

It's nice to have another query to get our teeth into

Yes I thought the same about the gap between Mary Ann and Hannah. I wonder if there are baptisms listed anywhere? That would be interesting. Would be expensive to get all 4 birth certificates and if no fathers names given....

I'll see if I can find David in 1871.

I did look for Baptisms, but drew a blank. However, I do find the FamilySearch (LDS) site a bit of a maze, so maybe they are there and I just can't spot them.



STG

Ancestry has just thrown up a Hint for Henry (b. 1874).



It's a Christening record, showing him as the son of David and Elizabeth! So, am theorising here, David married Elizabeth after Mary died? Maybe David and Elizabeth are also the parents of Sarah (b. 1874), but if so why isn't there a Christening hint popping up for her?



Questions, questions, questions.



STG

We thought David died in 1873 didn't we but that aside in 1881 there is a David and Elizabeth Harlow with a son Henry 7 and a daughter Sarah 5. They also have Louisa 9 and Annie 1.

Not the same David as he is from Leicestershire and much younger. And alive in 1881.

No luck finding your David in 1871.

perhaps here could help with a look up in allsaints baptisms or marriages
http://genealogy-links.co.uk/html/dby.lookup.html

I can't find the other two children Henry and Sarah after their brief appearance. I wondered if they changed surname to Wall but can't find them under that either!
At 19 and 17 in 1891 they could be anywhere.

Nor Mary Ann Ainsworth and her child

Time for

Hi

Have managed to find Ann Wall (nee Harper) on the 1911 census as a widow, and her death in 1912, but other than that, the rest of them (apart from Hannah) are a bit of a mystery.

I'll call it a day here and await further instructions from friend when he's had chance to try to absorb it all.

Thanks again for your help.

STG