1901/1911 census look up please

Mabel Allen born 1897 Bristol. Parents Ernest William Allen and Ada Jane Blore, sister Katherine Mary.

Would like this entry confirmed as I omitted to record where I obtained the information
"Southmead Westbury on Trym Bristol County: Gloucestershire ... Bristol School Of Industry For The Blind, BRISTOL SCHOOL OF INDUSTRY FOR THE BLIND"

Any help would be appreciated

siamese

Hi

Found her in 1911, as a servant at the School.  Orf to see if I can pin her down in 1901.

Want me to email you the images?  Just PM me to remind me who you are in real-life, pls?

STG

Edited to say: The only Bristol born Mabel I can find is in Hayworth Street, Bristol St George, with parents William (a railway engine stoker) and Ada, and sister Kathleen. Is that her?

you meant this isn't real life? feels very real to me  

Know exactly what you mean vron  

Do you think that is the same Mabel?

The servant in the blind school is 18 born 1893 not 1897  and could be the Mabel F in 1901 age 8 daughter of William & Mary J with brother George A.

Ah yes think we have two Mabel's on our hands here.

The one STG found in 1901 is here in 1911 - birthplace Oxfordshire but corrected to Bristol.

262 Whitehall Road St George Bristol

Ada Allen 40 married 5 children 4 living 1 died
Mabel Allen 14
Kathleen Mary Allen 11
Charles William Allen 7
Agnes Ada Allen 4

I have PM you STG thanks,

I have found this family a muddle to research. While browsing though ancestry trees came across someone researching Ernest William Allen so had a look, now more confusion.

Should mention to start I have the marriage certificate for Ada and Ernest in 1893. I also had that family down as mine in 1911 with Ada a widow with 4 children (according to the original a 5th child died)

Now back to this tree, he had Ernest's parents and siblings the same as me but Ernest's wife was called Francis Maud? plus daughter born 1905 called Ethel MG Allen. The family were living in Birmingham and Ernest worked for the Pru.

I have PM the tree owner hoping he will reply.

Thanks

siamese

I'll email you the images tomorrow when I can get onto the other computer (where I've already saved them on the hard drive).

Don't want to interfere if STG has it all under control (and am sure she has  ) but just to clarify the Ada with 4 children in 1911 was married not a widow so there should be a lone husband about somewhere.

Oh dear, just hope he has not 2 wives, Ada and Francis. Both living in Birmingham. Have one bigamist in the family already.

siamese

Tourmie wrote:Don't want to interfere if STG has it all under control (and am sure she has  ) but just to clarify the Ada with 4 children in 1911 was married not a widow so there should be a lone husband about somewhere.

Yes, had spotted that hubby was out all night and I did look for him, but he seems quite well hidden. Norty boy!  

BMD has marriages Mar 1897 Barton Regis

Ernest William Allen *
Frances Maud Marchant

Jun 1893 Barton Regis

Ernest William Allen
Ada Jane Blore

Soooooo is this the same chap

* marriage 31 March 1897 age 27 father Aaron Allen - is that the right father?

In 1901 them two are in Worcester.

The 1911 with Ernest W and Frances M both 41 are with daughter Edith 6 (not Ethel)
Married 14 years 1 child. So we could have two families sharing the one husband.

Puzzler  

Well the good news is they both seem to be in different places in 1901 suggesting two different chaps.

The one with Ada is in Bristol in 1901 with Mabel and Kathleen.  Also this one is born Bristol and the other one (with Frances) was born Cardiff.  

Still don't know where he'd sneaked off to in 1911 yet though  

Have had another look at the marriage certificate hoping for more information.

Ernest William Blore age 23 married Ada Jane Blore age 24 on the 20 Aptil 1893 in the parish of St Philip & Jacob Bristol. B and S, occupation Insurance agent and Draper's assistant. Addresses 8 Providence Place and 24 Richmond Street. Father's names and occupations Aaron Allen Furnaceman and Foreman. Witnesses William Augustus Bartholomew Blore and Alice Maud May Blore brother and sister to Ada,(Alice was my Grandmother)

Still confused as the Ernest married to Francis was also a insurance man (worked for the pru) also, now regarding his birth place could be a census error, can find 2 birth entries in the Bristol area on FreeBMD for 1874/1875 so a few years out. Likely one in Cardiff
Births Sep 1869 (>99%)
Allen Ernest William Cardiff 11a224
Although years back the Allen family lived in Wick and Abson, Gloucestershire the Grandfather Mark Allon moved to Wales and married there. His eldest son Aaron (Ernest's father) born 1845 in Monthmouthshire moved back to Bristol. He married in Cardiff and the 4 eldest children including Ernest were born there the rest in Bristol.

siamese

Same fathers name oh dear and if he was 23 in 1893 he would be 27 in 1897 so that fits.

Would be good if the tree owner has the marriage certificate to Frances to see if fathers occupation matches up.

I got the marriage info from ancestry England & Wales marriages 1538-1940

Name:
Frances Maud Marchant
Gender:
Female
Birth Date:
abt 1871
Age:
26
Father's Name:
William Marchant

Spouse's Name:
Ernest William Allen
Spouse's Age:
27
Spouse's Father's Name:
Arron Allen
Marriage Date:
31 Mar 1897
Marriage Place:
Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

1881 census 8 Providence Place

Aaron Allen 32 iron furnaceman b Wick Gloucestershire
Elizabeth M Allen 32 b Stonehouse Devon
Edward A 14
Ernest 11 b Blackwhen? Glamorgan
Elizth M 8
Mary A 5
Eliza E 3
Annie M 1

Does mothers name help?

Marriage Cardiff Jun 1867
Aaron Allen
Elizabeth Mairon Peters

1891 census 8 Providence Place

Aaron Allen 45 furnaceman
Elizabeth M 42
Ernest W 21 insurance agent

I won't list all the other children but the fact is the address matches the marriage certificate you have for 1893.

I have not heard from the tree owner but the only information he has about the marriage is from the 1911 census. Been to the library and he has nothing on Francis Maud, apart from the fact she was born in 1870 Bristol, no year of the marriage or surname.

I have a feeling we have a bigamist, I did make one mistake on the 1911 census Ada and children were living in Bristol while Ernest and Francis were living in Birmingham, direct route by train. He was a insurance agent did they not travel around. On the 1901 census he was living in 2 places but was very likely on his travels working so each wife said was living there. What do you think?

Wish I could find the reg/vol/p for the marriage between Francis and Ernest because if I do not hear from the tree owner I'll get a marriage certificate myself. Off to have another look on FreeBMD.

Thanks for your help

siamese

Found it

Marriages Mar 1897 (>99%)
ALLEN Ernest William
Barton R.
6a 149
Marchant Frances Maud
Barton R. 6a 149

I'll wait a few more days than order one so watch this space.

siamese

Is this it?


http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl?start=1897&end=1897&sq=1&eq=1&type=Marriages&vol=6a&pgno=149&jsexec=1&mono=0&v=MTM4Mjg3Nzc2NjplOGVkM2VhNGE1ZGM0Njc0YjIyMmY0MDUxNzc5OGNhN2E4MjVlNDgz&searchdef=given%3Dfrances%2520m%26db%3Dbmd_1380573949%26sq%3D1%26surname%3Dmarchant%26end%3D1899%26type%3DMarriages%26eq%3D4%26start%3D1860&action=Find

You just beat me to it!

And Ancestry has:


Name: Frances Maud Marchant

Gender: Female

Birth Date: abt 1871

Age: 26

Father's Name: William Marchant

Spouse's Name: Ernest William Allen

Spouse's Age: 27

Spouse's Father's Name: Arron Allen

Marriage Date: 31 Mar 1897

Marriage Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

Thanks STG and Tourmie,

See Aaron Allen is named as the father, do I need to order a cetificate?

siamese

siamesewillow wrote:

See Aaron Allen is named as the father, do I need to order a certificate?

Might be interesting to see how he describes himself (bachelor or widower) and who the witnesses were - although I suspect they would have been from Frances' family rather than his, if bigamy was his game. Ultimately, it depends on how crucial he is to the tree you're researching as to whether you want to afford this extra certificate.

Have we got a death/probate record for Ernest William - he can only die once and if he died before the two ladies in question which one did he name  

Just for info this must be Frances birth.

Jun 1869 Bedminster
Marchent Frances Maud

In 1891 she's a waitress Bridge St Bristol next door to "Adam & Eve" licensed vittals.

Found a few deaths but each one a few years out

Deaths Sep 1963 (>99%)
ALLEN ERNEST W 82 BIRMINGHAM 9C 414


Deaths Mar 1939 (>99%)
Allen Ernest W 62 Bristol 6a 271


Does ancestry go that far with their probate entries if so could you please have a look.

Ada was my great Aunt so would like to find the truth hence a marriage certificate may be neccessary.

siamese