A missing Gould

Nathan Gould, b. 1839 in North Littleton, Worcs, s/o Samuel Gould and Zillah (nee Horne).

He's on the 1841 census with his parents. In 1851 he's in Aston, Birmingham living with his uncle and aunt Nathan and Jane Gould.

In 1861 he's in barracks at Chatham, Kent as a private in the Royal Marines.

In 1866 he marries Lucy Brown, in Chatham.

On 5 May 1871 Lucy dies (of TB) in Chatham, and according to the death certificate is with her when she dies.



Why then can't I find either Nathan or Lucy on the 1871 census, please?

Have gone a bit cross-eyed looking, so would appreciate any help.

STG



PS : He marries again in 1875 to Mary Hemming, in North Littleton, Worcs; begets my grandfather in 1878 and dies (listed on death certificate as an agricultural labourer) from bowel cancer in 1879.

Chatham would appear to be where they should be in 1871 doesn't it but I can't see them.

Any idea where/when Lucy was born?

I wonder if he was still in Chatham Barracks in 1871....anyone up for an address search challenge

Tourmie wrote:Chatham would appear to be where they should be in 1871 doesn't it but I can't see them.

Any idea where/when Lucy was born?

Haven't got their marriage certificate, but her death certificate says she died at (what looks like ) "Fair Row, Chatham" and that's also the address for the informant, Nathan (present at the death).

So, maybe that's where I should start looking.

STG

Fair Row does exist now seems to be a shopping centre. Another address search!

Have somehow found the name of a family living 3 Fair Row in 1871 - James A Howes.
Worth a look under that name to see up and down the Row. They might be hiding somewhere.

Try Lydia Hammond lodger charwoman born Chatham 1842 she is above the address 1 Fair Row.

Tourmie wrote:Fair Row does exist now seems to be a shopping centre. Another address search!

Have somehow found the name of a family living 3 Fair Row in 1871 - James A Howes.
Worth a look under that name to see up and down the Row. They might be hiding somewhere.

Try Lydia Hammond lodger charwoman born Chatham 1842 she is above the address 1 Fair Row.

Thanks muchly. Will have to look later. Am now on dinner cooking duty!

STG

You will need a good dinner STG there are 85 pages for Chatham Barracks for 1871

More likely to be Fair Row (we hope)

Tourmie wrote:You will need a good dinner STG there are 85 pages for Chatham Barracks for 1871

More likely to be Fair Row (we hope)

B*gger.

Been through the 28pp of District 28 and all 85pp of the barracks. Not even a sniff.

I did find a Private William Gould, age 23, from North Littleton, Worcs - he must be a relative of Nathan's somehow, 'cos it's only a v.small village - but it will be a while before I can place him in the family.

I've emailed the chap who sent me Lucy's death certificate to see if he pinned them down in 1871. See now from correspondence with him that Lucy was from Hockley, Essex, and that she was 24 when she died. Even with that extra info, it hasn't helped me find her in 1871.

Failing that I might ask in FTF and hope that someone with a FMP sub turns up and spots them immediately.

STG

Must admit I wasn't too hopeful because if they were under the right names they would have come up that way wouldn't they.

I had a look in the hospital/workhouse pages too just in case she was being treated there before she died but no luck.

I can look when I next go to the library if nobody has FMP'd them before then.
It's funny how one family can be completely missing on one system and come straight up on the other.

Don't suppose they had any children before she died or we could look for those.

I didn't know about Lucy at all until someone told me. He sent me her death certificate and Nathan's death certificate. He said there were no children.

I've checked Gould births in Medway Reg District between 1866-1871 and they are:

Births Jun 1866 (>99%)
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Gould Mary A Medway 2a 406

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Births Dec 1866 (>99%)
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Gould William S Medway 2a 433

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Births Sep 1867 (>99%)
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Gould Emily Workman Medway 2a 417

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Births Mar 1869 (>99%)
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Gould Charles Medway 2a 482
Gould Esther Ann Medway 2a 513

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Births Dec 1871 (>99%)
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GOULD Mary Jane Medway 2a 450


but I haven't tried to track any of them yet. Might give it a go tomorrow if I get the chance.

If you could try FMP that would be brill. There's another tree on Ancestry with Lucy on, but the owner hasn't found her in 1871 either.

If I hear back from the chap who's related to Lucy I'll let you know asap.

Thanks
STG

Probably not important but I can't find Nathan's birth anywhere.

Don't suppose he had another first/middle name did he? I see he is Nathan on the census so no reason why he should just can't find him under Gould or Nathan

Tiny bit suspicious but he uses that name all his life so probably all above board.

I haven't found Nathan's birth registration either, but his baptism on 3 Mar 1839 is on Family Search (s/o Samuel and Zillah), and his marriage to Mary Hemming on 20 Oct 1875 is there too. On Nathan's death certificate (d. 22 Jan 1879), he's said to be 40 yo.

He's from the same village as the Judith Hemming (sister of Mary - see below) who's birth registration we couldn't find a few months ago. Maybe the villagers weren't that hot at the legal stuff.

In the absence of a birth registration, the circumstantial evidence for Nathan being my g.grandfather is:

1. A cousin of mine has a photo of our g.grandad in his Royal Marines Uniform - Nathan was in the RMs

2. In 1881 my grandad, Albert Gould, is living with his widowed mother, Mary Gould and her mother, Emmeline Hemming - Mary Hemming married a Nathan Gould in 1875.

3. My mother and many of her brothers/sisters all spoke about their father being from "near Evesham" - North Littleton is near Evesham.

Maybe to square the circle I should get Albert's birth certificate. That will confirm his father's name, but alas it won't help find Nathan on the 1871 census.

STG

Edited to say : Have just ordered Albert's birth certificate.

Hi

Heard back from the chap who sent me the death certificates. He hasn't found them on the 1871 census either.

Drat!

STG

Rats but I'll certainly have a look at the library tomorrow STG you never know your luck

Will let you know either way.

You won't believe this but I went to the library this morning and there was a sign up saying their computers were temporarily out of order

I have asked if the local one (open half day today) has problems as well grrrrrrrrr.

I hope they aren't changing back to ancestry

Back working this afternoon but no luck I'm afraid. Not a sniff of either of them sorry to say

Thanks for trying, Tourmie.

STG

My grandfather's birth certificate arrived this morning. It confirms that his parents were Nathan Gould, agricultural labourer, and Mary Gould (nee Hemming).

Doesn't help us find Nathan and/or first wife Lucy in 1871, or Nathan's birth though.

STG

Ah well at least you have that. You have the baptism for Nathan if not the birth itself and if it's any comfort, as we can't find either of them in 1871, we can believe they were together before she died.

Is every scrap of census online now? I wonder if the Chatham area has anything stashed away like a few missing pages which they might be on! Or maybe some pages got destroyed
Clutching at straws really hard but would be so nice to find them.

I've sent a query out just to see if by chance any records were missing. It's a real long shot especially as we've looked up and down the road etc but nothing ventured as they say.

No other explanation really is there unless they were hiding under a rock that night!

Or despite indications to the contrary weren't in Chatham at all. In which case would have found them elsewhere.

Anyway worth a shot

Oh another thought on her death certificate did it say how long she had been ill?
I know on some it says cause of death whatever then 6 months or 2 weeks etc

Just checked Lucy's death certificate, but it doesn't give a length of time to the illness. The census was taken just a month before she died, so she'd have been in a pretty bad way.

Thanks for enquiring about any missing segments.



STG

No reply yet but I was thinking maybe she was in a hospital of some kind and if there were a lot of people there recorded under initials or something vague. Have seen that before.

She could have been released back home to pass away. That's why I asked if length of illness was recorded to give us any further clues.

There were a few hospital like institutions in the area which I did glance at before but no harm in having another look.

Don't like to be beaten do you

Tried typing in just initials and the results seem to be people in prison or mental institutions so scrap that idea.

Time to sleep on it

No reply from one and the other replied but said "didn't have time to look" which wasn't very helpful. May as well not have replied at all

Will have to accept defeat on this one. For now.