A Smith Problem

I now have the marriage certificate of

Harry Clements, 23, bachelor, miner, Newthorpe (Notts), s/o William Thomas Clements, miner
and
Mary Alice Smith, 24, spinster, - , Newthorpe (Notts), d/o Harry Smith, lace hand

which took place at the parish church in Greasley, Notts on 23 Aug 1913.

Witnesses were William Thomas Clements (father of groom), Nellie Clements (sister of groom), Alice Clements (another sister of groom) and a William Henry Stanley - no idea who latter is.

I had high hopes that the certificate would help me find Mary Alice and her father and other family members in the 1911, 1901 and 1891 (and before etc), but it doesn't seem to have. Grrrr.

Can anyone help, please?

Thanks
STG

Sorry can't find her

Found the Clements family in 1911 as I expect you have but there seems to be a surprising lack of Smith's in Notts/Newthorpe.

I was thinking maybe she wasn't from there but was there in service or something esp as his family are witnesses none of hers but that belies the fact her father was into lace.

No William Henry Stanley in the area either. There is one about who was 20 in 1911 a miner but not in Notts.

Is Newthorpe on the cusp of other county?

Are these children theirs do you know?

Harry R Jun 1914 Basford
Albert F Dec 1917 Basford

I can't see which district Newthorpe comes under

There is also another Smith marriage on the same page Thomas E to Lois Bircumshaw.
Very hard to tell with Smith I know but could be a brother.

l o n g

s h o t

Here's an interesting one.

1891

Harry Smith 24 dyer born Ovendon
Alice Jane 25 born Halifax
Mary Alice 4 born Ovendon Yorks
Edith 3 born Ovendon Yorks

Ancestry links the other 3 to US census for 1910 and possibly 1900 but not Mary Alice soooooo was she left behind on her todd and had no family at her wedding?

Can we check US census or passenger things to see if she is missing

Hmmm well Mary A Smith is with the family in the US * on the 1910 census plus two younger brothers born New Jersey.

Also there in 1900 *

Unless she flitted back to the UK not likely to be her is it.

Sorry, been out all day.

Yes those are two of Harry and Mary Alice's four children (others are Derrick a and Margaret). I have them going forward, as Albert F is my friend's grandfather.

Completely failed looking for Mary Alice's father called Harry, but did find a Henry. Whaddya think?

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=DBYRG12_2662_2665-0066&fn=Mary+Alice&ln=Smith&st=r&ssrc=gr_t54624536_p13690550760_ktidz0q3d54624536z0q26pidz0q3d13690550760z0q26hidz0q3d81214735299z0q26dbidz0q3d6598z0q26rpidz0q3d3585661z0q26ssrcz0q3dgrz0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q252c32782z0q26pgplz0q3dpidz0q252ctidz0q257cpidz0q257chidz0q257cdbidz0q257crpidz0q257cssrcz0q26pgpsz0q3d13690550760_h81214735299&pid=3585661

Henry is a framework knitter, which is somewhat close to a lace maker (am clutching at straws here!).

Greasley is in Basford Reg District. It's near Eastwood, Giltbrook, and Heanor (from the above census) isn't a million miles away either.

Looks pretty good but he doesn't dabble in lace much. In 1911 he is a gardener and 66 by then and she is dabbling in a hosiery works.

Maybe she got him a job doing lacey things

Maybe gardening was just a passing phase and he came to lace making late in life

In 1891 - as Henry - he was a framework knitter

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=DBYRG12_2662_2665-0066&fn=Mary+Alice&ln=Smith&st=r&ssrc=&pid=3585661

but in 1901 - as Harry - he seems to be a general labourer

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7814&iid=DBYRG13_3147_3148-0048&fn=Harry&ln=Smith&st=r&ssrc=&pid=18423869

Why wasn't Mary Alice's father called something more unusual, like Lazarus, then I'd be able to find 'em all!

Not having any luck, except that I've found out who William Henry Stanley was. He married Harry Clements' sister Ellen (Nellie) in 1914. So, he's no help in finding anything more out about Mary Alice Smith, is he?

I've not found anything else worth reporting either

Do you know if they had any children? Maybe they had an unusual name or two that might be a clue.

Harry Clements and Mary Alice Smith had four children:

Harry Roy, b.1914
Albert Frederick, b. 1917
Derrick Austin, b. 1924
Margaret, b. 1926

which all seem v.ordinary to me except perhaps Austin, but by 1924 the pattern of only using family names was defo on the wain.
This is driving me mad

Been looking at Harolds/Henrys/Harrys but can't find a better option than the one you found STG.

Few Harolds that were into lace but they were too young to be her father.

Sowwy

Update:

At Notts Archive yesterday saw original of Harry Clements' and Mary Alice Smith's marriage cert. My hunch was right, vicar had mis-written the copy. Mary's father is Henry not Harry, so that makes the family in Heanor the very best bet, even if Henry is a gardener in 1911 rather than a lace hand. Also my friend phoned an elderly relative who said that Mary had a sister Edith and a brother Albert, and that matches the Heanor family too.

I found Henry's marriage to Jane Hallam (Gotham 1870) and then then a baptism for a Henry (s/o Thomas and Mary), but that was in 1841 whereas census and marriage cert say he was b.1844-45. Then I ran out of time, so if I can't find info via FS, I may have to go back to Notts, but that's not a problem.

Have since found George Hallam (name from Jane's marriage cert) and family on census and at one point they were living with Jane's mother's family, so now I know Jane's mother's maiden name. After the struggles I've had with this tree, I felt quite blessed by that.

Still, I'm a lot further forward than I was a couple of days ago.

Thanks for the encouragement.
STG

Oh well done you have made progress.

I take it Henry Smiths father on his marriage to Jane was Thomas?

There's a Henry born to Thomas and Alice 1843 Tithby Cum Cropwell Butler Nottingham if that's anywhere near Gotham.

Could this be Henry, Jane and first born William in 1871

John Shepherd 66 born Gotham (was that a city?)
Ann wife 67 "
Henry Smith 26 grandson in law "
Jane Smith 21 granddaughter
William Smith 0 great grandson

Maybe not Thomas and Alice parents but this could be him in 1851/1861.

1851 - all born Gotham

Thomas Smith 51 occupation F W K (don't know what that is)**
Mary 39 seamstress
Joseph 19 F W K
Silas 17
Isaac 15
Henry 6
Lucy 3

**OH could that be.....drum roll.....Frame Work Knitter

1861

Thomas Smith 61 stocking maker cotton
Mary 49 seamstress
Henry 16 stocking maker cotton
Lucy 13
Rebekah Gregg 3 visitor

I think the ones in your second message this morning are the right family.

On Henry's marriage cert Thomas if a framework knitter, and Jane's father George is a shoe maker both of which match with the census.

Am feeling a lot happier about this tree at the mo.

May as well do 1841 as well for good measure.

1841 - abode Gotham

Thomas Smith 40 F W K
Mary 30
Joseph 9
Silas 7
Isaac 6
Eliza 4
William 2

Jane Hallam is also with grandparents in 1851 John and Ann Shepherd so the 1871 with her as Jane Smith granddaughter must be correct

You've already got that I think as father George is shoemaker as you said.
Progress indeed.

Jane is also with grandparents in 1861.

Thanks for all that. Seems to be coming together quite nicely.

Sorry to disappoint, but locally Gotham is pronounce goat-'em.

Goat-'em oh I am gutted

Sorry to have burst your bubble.